[6:05] Art Fossett is Online
[6:06] Art Fossett: hi,
everyone
[6:06] Art Fossett: sorry about that
[6:06]
lizit Cleanslate: Hi Art
[6:06] Bunyip Barbosa: Hi Art!
[6:06]
Amanita Voom: Hi Art where do you want us?
[6:06] Art Fossett:
i'm trying to record the video of this, but it filled my C: drive up
:-(
[6:06] Art Fossett: duh... i should have checked
[6:06]
Art Fossett: i'm now recording to a different drive, so we'll see
how it goes
[6:06] Sumdy Bonne: are there any biscuits?
[6:07]
Geoff Magellan: Great, be good to have a record.
[6:07] Art
Fossett: before we get started properly i just wanted to say a few
words of welcome
[6:07] Norma Demina: I really hope we het
something to show the others - worth a go
[6:07] Lulu Minnelli:
forget the biscuits is there any wine
[6:07] Amanita Voom:
Shortbread please
[6:07] Art Fossett: and perheps everyone to
just go round and say their RL names
[6:07] Art Fossett: i know
that is unusual... but in this case, I think it might be
helpful
[6:07] Art Fossett: just names and institution
[6:07]
Geoff Magellan: I'm Geoff Minshull.
[6:07] Bunyip Barbosa: Hi
I'm Nick Bunyan fromt he U of Liverpool
[6:07] Art Fossett:
ok
[6:07] Longside Lane: I'm John Dermo from Bradford
Uni
[6:07] lizit Cleanslate: Liz Thackray - OU
[6:08]
Hilary Graves: Hilary Griffiths uni of Bristol
[6:08] Sumdy
Bonne: will stewart from bradford uni
[6:08] Tess123 Bailey: Hi
I'm Debbie Prescott University of Liverpool
[6:08] Chris
Eggplant: Chris Swaine, Education UK Island
[6:08] Zenita
Zadeh: Hi, Jane O'Neill University of Leeds
[6:08] Lulu
Minnelli: im Julia gaimster from london college of fashion
[6:08]
Zenita Zadeh: Hi Will
[6:08] Lonac Bade: i'm kevin brosnan,
univ. of stirling
[6:08] Graham Mills: Peter Miller, also
Liverpool
[6:08] Amanita Voom: Nigel Robertson UO
Bradford
[6:08] Talula Nikolaidis: I'm Liz Foulis from
TESEP
[6:08] Peregrine Juneau: I'm Pete Johnston and I work
with Art/Andy as a Technical Researcher at the Eduserv Foundation in
Bath.
[6:08] Gann McGann: mark childs - warwick
[6:08]
Norma Demina: Lou McGill, JISC
[6:08] Tess123 Bailey: I'll
never remember all those
[6:08] Talula Nikolaidis: !
[6:08]
Longside Lane: Me neither
[6:09] Lulu Minnelli: i cant even
remember who i am today
[6:09] Longside Lane: looks like I'm
short sighted in SL
[6:09] Art Fossett: ok, thanks
[6:09]
Art Fossett: that also gave me time to build a quick slide
screen
[6:09] Art Fossett: :-)
[6:10] Art Fossett: so...
welcome to the SL showcase part of the JISC Online Conference
2007
[6:10] Art Fossett: and welcome to eduserv island
[6:10]
Art Fossett: can everyone see the slides?
[6:10] Art Fossett:
use alt-zoom to position your cameras if you need to
[6:10]
Zenita Zadeh: yes
[6:11] Amanita Voom: Use Ctl 0 to zoom
[6:11]
Art Fossett: ok, so what are we trying to achieve today
[6:11]
Art Fossett: ?
[6:11] Art Fossett: firstly, just the experince
of having a meeting in SL
[6:11] Art Fossett: i think that will
be qwuite useful in its own right
[6:12] Art Fossett: and i'd
be interested afterwards in what went well and what didn't
[6:12]
Art Fossett: particularly what didn't!
[6:12] Art Fossett: but
hopefully we can also have some real discussion aboiut barrier to
adopting SL in education
[6:12] Art Fossett: and begin to think
about mitigating those barriers
[6:12] Art Fossett: as the
slide says... this is all very expoerimental (hence my crash just
now)
[6:13] Art Fossett: so we'll have to see how it
goes
[6:13] Lulu Minnelli: well i cant get it through the uni
firewall for a start that is a big barrier
[6:13] Art Fossett:
i hope you find something of value in the next hour or so
[6:13]
Art Fossett: i'm going to break us into two groups for the
discussion
[6:13] Art Fossett: i have one repporteur so
far
[6:13] Art Fossett: so if one other person could volunteer
that would be good
[6:13] Art Fossett: ??
[6:13] Art
Fossett: hint hint
[6:14] Art Fossett: thanks to lizit for
volunteering already
[6:14] Hilary Graves: what do you need to
do?
[6:14] Art Fossett: make a notecard of the 10 most
significant barriers
[6:14] Art Fossett: should be pretty
simple
[6:14] Art Fossett: and feed back to the main group at
the end
[6:14] Hilary Graves: Im happy to do that - but am a
total newbie
[6:15] Art Fossett: ok?
[6:15] Art Fossett:
thanks - cool
[6:15] Art Fossett: ok, so we've got our two
victims - err.. i mean volunteers
[6:15] Art Fossett:
:-)
[6:15] Hilary Graves: :-)
[6:15] lizit Cleanslate:
<g>
[6:14] Art Fossett: we'll spend about 30 minutes in
discussion groups
[6:15] Art Fossett: after 30 minutes or so,
we'll come back together for a group discussion
[6:15] Art
Fossett: ok, the groups are...
[6:16] Art Fossett: good, lizit
and hilary are in different groups
[6:16] Art Fossett: the
meeting places for the discussion groups are down the steps
[6:17]
Art Fossett: to my right
[6:17] Tess123 Bailey: Art i'm sorry
not sure what' I'm doing wrong but can't read the writing
[6:17]
Art Fossett: then turn right or left
[6:17] Art Fossett: any
questions
[6:17] Peregrine Juneau: Tess123: it just takes a
while to come into focus, I think
[6:17] Geoff Magellan: Takes
a minute or so to focus.
[6:18] Art Fossett: tess, join which
ever group you like
[6:18] Geoff Magellan: Tess, go in any
group, because you were a late addition, Art hasn't allocated
you.
[6:18] Tess123 Bailey: Ok thanks
The meeting
then broke into two discussion groups, each lasting about 30
minutes.
There was some confusion in finding the location of the
discussion
areas and in getting people into their allocated
groups.
Group 1
[6:18] Hilary Graves: Hi - how
do I sit down:-)
[6:18] Bunyip Barbosa: Right click and slect
sit down
[6:18] Hand-up seat: Use PAGE-UP to raise hand.
Use
PAGE-DOWN to lower hand.
[6:18] Norma Demina: Hi there I'm
having a bit of difficulty seeing things. right click on a
chair
[6:19] Hilary Graves: thanks
[6:19] Norma Demina:
I've zoomed in too much - how do I zoom out?
[6:19] Bunyip
Barbosa: Use mouse wheel
[6:19] Hilary Graves: do you mind if I
quickly check what the arrow keys do?
[6:19] Peregrine Juneau:
I think we've lost people - I'll go to try to riund them up!
[6:20]
Art Fossett: zenita... along behind me
[6:20] You shout: The
"Left Group" is down the steps to the left i.e. down the
side of the conference hall. I think only four people have found it
so far!
[6:21] Norma Demina: not sure?
[6:21] Hand-up
seat: Use PAGE-UP to raise hand.
Use PAGE-DOWN to lower
hand.
[6:22] Bunyip Barbosa: Is IM just for 1 to 1
communication in SL?
[6:22] Peregrine Juneau: OK, I think we'll
just have to start with the people who are here ;-)
[6:22]
Hilary Graves: thanks
[6:22] Norma Demina: can you help me undo
the ctr 0 as I've zoomed in too close
[6:23] Peregrine Juneau:
Try Esc to restore your view
[6:23] Norma Demina: tried that
but didn't work may have to leave and quickly come back
[6:23]
Hilary Graves: do you mind if we start anyway norma?
[6:23]
Norma Demina: no fine..
[6:24] Peregrine Juneau: OK, I think
our task is to identify 10 key barriers to using SL in education.
Could be technical, cultural, organisational, pedagogical,
anything.
[6:24] Lulu Minnelli: finding your way around is
one
[6:24] Bunyip Barbosa: Finding useful sites is hard - most
I have found are from word of mouth so far.
[6:24] Graham
Mills: :-)
[6:24] Lulu Minnelli: the map is a bit
esoteric
[6:25] Graham Mills: Synchronising chat to
question
[6:25] Bunyip Barbosa: Its too much fun - too many
distractions!
[6:25] Graham Mills: Are we hand raising?
[6:25]
Lulu Minnelli: is someone taking notes
[6:25] Hilary Graves: I
am:-)
[6:25] Lulu Minnelli: oh good :-)
[6:25] Sumdy
Bonne: Hi theresa. glad you made it
[6:26] Theresa Beattie: Hi
What's going on here then?
[6:26] Hilary Graves: is there any
way to save and share good education loactions?
[6:26] Lulu
Minnelli: i guess through the sled
[6:26] Sumdy Bonne:
discussing 10 barriers to using SL
[6:26] Theresa Beattie: OK
sounds good. You making notes?
[6:26] Hilary Graves: we've got
finding your way round and distraction so far...
[6:27] Theresa
Beattie: Firewalls!
[6:27] Lulu Minnelli: controlling the
camera and mouse are pretty trick y too i still find myself in places
i dont want to be
[6:27] Bunyip Barbosa: Graphic cards
issues
[6:27] Zenita Zadeh: technical stuff: bandwidth,
firewalls, graphics card
[6:27] Lulu Minnelli: crashing
[6:28]
Zenita Zadeh: down for maintenance
[6:28] Sumdy Bonne: Being
comforatble with the environment may be an issue for some
[6:28]
Graham Mills: I'm scared of bumping into people but I guess I'll get
over it
[6:28] Lulu Minnelli: when i said what i was doing my
family thought i was chatting up guys on the internet
[6:28]
Lulu Minnelli: so there is a reputation barrier
[6:28]
Peregrine Juneau: Graham: also people get used to being bumped into
at an event like this ;-)
[6:28] Graham Mills: Yeh -- I wonder
what people walking outside my office think?
[6:28] Bunyip
Barbosa: I think it would be a very scary environment for some uses
that are not used of other forms of social networking on the
web.
[6:29] Lulu Minnelli: a lot of our staff are also a bit
initimidated
[6:29] Graham Mills: I'm a bit intimidated (and I
don't type fast enough)
[6:29] Zenita Zadeh: some of our staff
our concerned about the seedier side of SL
[6:29] Lulu
Minnelli: time zones are a problem for international meetings
[6:29]
Hilary Graves: :-)
[6:30] Bunyip Barbosa: Is there an easy way
to leave asynchronous messages in SL?
[6:30] Lulu Minnelli: yes
IM
[6:30] Theresa Beattie: Some dodgy places you can end up in
with 'inappropriate material'
[6:30] Sumdy Bonne: I think that
we are still at the BBC micro stage. Once we get to the more
sophisticated stage then more people will find it easier
[6:30]
Graham Mills: Voice rather than chat will help some staff
[6:30]
Norma Demina: Hi - sorry they locked me out for 5 mins!
[6:30]
Bunyip Barbosa: I think voise is coming soon?
[6:31] Lulu
Minnelli: having to build everything in world is an issue i could do
a lot more if i could work offline
[6:31] Norma Demina: cant
you make clothes outside?
[6:31] Lulu Minnelli: you can lose a
lot of time in here and acheive nothing
[6:31] Lulu Minnelli:
you can do a bit outside with clothes but not everything
[6:32]
Norma Demina: some people have made templates available for download
I noticed
[6:32] Zenita Zadeh: i think the fact that we have
limited evidence that SL adds anything to a learning experience is a
barrier
[6:32] Bunyip Barbosa: I spend a lot of time going up
steps and stairs to get to information - moving is not that
smooth.
[6:32] Lulu Minnelli: i find the powerpoint difficult
to read
[6:32] Hilary Graves: so far we've got... the basics -
moving etc, searhing and finding stuff, tech stuff, perceptions,
intimidation, the seedier side, communication limitiations and being
always in to create sound fair?
[6:32] Bunyip Barbosa:
Yes
[6:32] Graham Mills: Agreed
[6:33] Lulu Minnelli: has
anyone ever found evidence that a blackboard and a piece of chalk add
anything to the educational experience?
[6:33] Norma Demina: ;
)
[6:33] Zenita Zadeh: good point!
[6:33] Lulu Minnelli:
I dont know why we have to justify everything in those terms if the
students enjoy it its a good tool
[6:33] Peregrine Juneau:
;-)
[6:34] Graham Mills: Do students use SL much?
[6:34]
Hilary Graves: are there cultural things about SL that a newbie
should know - or is most education happening in confined
spaces?
[6:34] Sumdy Bonne: I'm not sure that students use it
very much - any evidence?
[6:34] Theresa Beattie: Kids don't
seem to - not 15 year olds anyway
[6:34] Lulu Minnelli: mine
cant get in through the college firewall yet but we have started a
society and a wiki
[6:34] Norma Demina: Paul Hollis from cetis
said that the averae age is 35!
[6:34] Graham Mills: I'm agreed
about faux pas
[6:34] Lulu Minnelli: mature students
then
[6:35] Bunyip Barbosa: I told our studetn guild about SL -
they all use facebook!
[6:35] Norma Demina: I have heard it's
mainly people interested in porn and librarian!
[6:35] Hilary
Graves: so is sl a barrier in itself to younger students?
[6:35]
Peregrine Juneau: Re age, SL is partitioned into the "main
grid" (which is 18 plus, in theory at least) and Teen SL (for
under 18s)
[6:35] Lulu Minnelli: i think my students will be
intereseted when i tell them we have an exhibition of their work in
here
[6:36] Norma Demina: yes an exhibiton is a good idea and
not only for art/fashion students
[6:36] Bunyip Barbosa: I
don't think the finding friends and groups is as good as facebook
etc.
[6:36] Lulu Minnelli: i have the networking with other
educators really useful i think the studnets might too if they have
spaces they can meet in safely
[6:37] Peregrine Juneau: For
serach generally, I've tended to rely quite a bit on the Web i.e. Web
sites describing SL stuff. The inworld search isn't great.
[6:37]
Peregrine Juneau: search
[6:37] Hilary Graves: so could we say
the communications and social networking aspects could do with
improving? Or do we need to know how best to use it?
[6:37]
Hilary Graves: ok - search added :-)
[6:37] Theresa Beattie:
There are some good SL videos on Youtube.
[6:38] Bunyip
Barbosa: I think this is a good point - it takes a bit of research to
get good in SL
[6:38] Graham Mills: I think there's a tendency
to recreate RL features rather than new ones
[6:38] Lulu
Minnelli: to really get something out of it i think you need some
basic scripting skills otherwise you get a bit frustrated wanting to
do things you cant
[6:38] Graham Mills: e.g. museums,
galleries
[6:38] Norma Demina: I think that is a very
intersting point graham
[6:38] Hilary Graves: sorry graham can
you repeat?
[6:38] Bunyip Barbosa: Yes - U of Herfordshire ahas
an exact campus with a car park in it!
[6:38] Norma Demina:
we're not very good at thinking out of the box
[6:39] Lulu
Minnelli: I also think many people try to replicate real life rather
than explore new ways of doing things
[6:39] Bunyip Barbosa: I
get a bit sad seeign so many replications of RL hre.
[6:39]
Lulu Minnelli: here here
[6:39] Zenita Zadeh: has anyone seen
any really good examples of non-replication?
[6:40] Norma
Demina: people need a comfort zone when things are new to be
fair...
[6:40] Graham Mills: True -- you need both
[6:40]
Norma Demina: yes agreed
[6:40] Hilary Graves: I agree -
somewhere safe to move out of, but isn't the community where sl's
strength lies?
[6:40] Lulu Minnelli: there are some places but
they are hard to find- a friend of mine reckons it is cos the first
SLers were computer people not designers
[6:40] Bunyip Barbosa:
Yes both, but there are other metaphors we can build on
[6:40]
Peregrine Juneau: Art tells me we have about 5 mins left before going
back to main group. Have we got 10 points? More or less ;-)
[6:41]
Hilary Graves: we've got 11:-) Shall I summarise?
[6:41] Lulu
Minnelli: linden dollars dont give you receipts so it hard to claim
expenses
[6:41] Peregrine Juneau: Cool!
[6:41] Peregrine
Juneau: Yes, taht would be good. Summary, I mean.
[6:41] Hilary
Graves: the basics - moving, finding your way around (search and
research), tech stuff
[6:41] Graham Mills: Can you control the
weather? That would be cool...
[6:41] Peregrine Juneau: Lulu,
you do get an emailreceipt when you buy them!
[6:41] Bunyip
Barbosa: You can control the sun
[6:42] Hilary Graves: not
feeling comfortable in the envirnment, perceptions of seediness and
the real seedier side
[6:42] Peregrine Juneau: I think you can
do stuff with weather but I'm not sure!
[6:42] Lulu Minnelli:
not that i know of you can check your account online having probs
wiht that at the mo though
[6:42] Hilary Graves: time zones,
building stuff - always online
[6:42] Hilary Graves: thinking
out of the box - not just replicating real life
[6:42] Hilary
Graves: is that 10? ish;-)
[6:43] Lulu Minnelli: has anyone
noticed there are no public conveniences in SL?
[6:43] Lulu
Minnelli: LOL
[6:43] Hilary Graves: shame we didn't have ten
good reasons to use it too:-)
[6:43] Graham Mills: I think it
helps a lot to have a n experienced guide. I've learned a lot
already.
[6:44] Bunyip Barbosa: Yes many good reasons!
[6:44]
Hilary Graves: so you're all happy with the list?
[6:44]
Bunyip Barbosa: Yes
[6:44] Graham Mills: Fine
[6:45]
Peregrine Juneau: Yes, are you happy to report back? ;-)
[6:45]
Hilary Graves: ok - but we'll all have time and space to chip in
won't we?
[6:45] Peregrine Juneau: Oh, yes, i'm sure we
will.
[6:46] Hilary Graves: excellent - thank you all for a
great second visit to sl:-)
[6:46] Norma Demina: now that was
wierd
[6:46] Theresa Beattie: Over here!
[6:46] Norma
Demina: shartpear is not on our list
[6:46] Hilary Graves: ho
Shartpear:-)
[6:46] Theresa Beattie: Over here!
[6:46]
Hilary Graves: i meant hi...
[6:46] Norma Demina: no one spoke
to him - did he make you feel uncomfortable?
[6:47] Hilary
Graves: who keeps saying over here?
[6:47] Zenita Zadeh: are
you signing theresa
[6:48] Hilary Graves: *signing*? Not sure
what that means, sorry ;-)
[6:48] Zenita Zadeh: sign language -
you were doing a lot of complicated looking movements
[6:48]
Peregrine Juneau: Right, I think Art is asking us to stay here for a
minute. And then we'll be goin inside the conference hall for the
reposrt back session.
[6:49] Bunyip Barbosa: You can fly in
through the roof of the hall!
[6:49] Peregrine Juneau: When you
get inside sit on an "audience seat".
[6:49]
Peregrine Juneau: OK, we're going back in now.
[6:49] Graham
Mills: ... if you know what you're doin!
[6:49] Bunyip Barbosa:
OK
[6:50] Peregrine Juneau: You need to use the "stand-up"
button to get out of the chairs
Group 2
[6:18]
Zenita Zadeh: is this the right group?
[6:18] Zenita Zadeh: as
opposed to the left?
[6:19] Amanita Voom: This is the RIGHT
group!
[6:19] lizit Cleanslate: I thought it was right
[6:19]
Zenita Zadeh: whoops
[6:19] Lulu Minnelli: sorry
[6:19]
Art Fossett: these seats can be used to put your hand up and down...
but you may want to ignore that
[6:19] Sumdy Bonne: yes, just
check. bye
[6:19] Art Fossett: hang on a minute... the other
group are lost!
[6:19] Art Fossett: guys... back over this
way!!
[6:20] Amanita Voom: Is that the first barrier - the
geography?
[6:20] Art Fossett: zenita... along behind me
[6:20]
Graham Mills: I think I'm in the wrong group too but so is everybody
else
[6:21] Tess123 Bailey: Is this group 2?
[6:21]
Longside Lane: Gann, your hair is blinding me!
[6:21] Art
Fossett: i'm gessing that some of you should be in the other
group
[6:21] Gann McGann: navigation requires switching between
differnet modes - map minimap - and also visuals
[6:21] Gann
McGann: sorry i'll change
[6:21] Graham Mills: I'll go
too
[6:21] Geoff Magellan: This is group 2. I think.
[6:21]
Art Fossett: but it doesn't matter... we'll stay where we are
[6:22]
lizit Cleanslate: Is it something behind the navigation and all that
- jsut the learning curve of getting ot know your way around the
place
[6:22] Art Fossett: yes, this is group 2
[6:22]
Longside Lane: Cool new head, Gann - thanks for that
[6:22]
lizit Cleanslate: being able to walk and talk
[6:22] Geoff
Magellan: I think it's just a learning curve. Familiarity would make
this sort of organisation much quicker.
[6:22] Gann McGann:
run??
[6:22] Art Fossett: blimey... that was more complicated
than i was expecting!
[6:23] Longside Lane: That was the easy
part
[6:23] Gann McGann: i've been doign this for about three
weeks now and didn't find out you could run
[6:23] Tess123
Bailey: its very strange thinking you know what you're doing then
finding you don't!
[6:23] Art Fossett: ok, out task is to come
up with 10 key barriers
[6:23] Gann McGann: finding out the
info you need seems to be another barrier
[6:23] Art Fossett:
who would like to start
[6:24] Chris Eggplant: tech specs for
PCs are still quite high
[6:24] Art Fossett: tes, agreed
[6:24]
Tess123 Bailey: Lack of experience with SL for me
[6:24] Chris
Eggplant: need broadband connectivity
[6:24] lizit Cleanslate:
what's the score with Vista at the moment
[6:24] lizit
Cleanslate: will SL run or not
[6:24] Gann McGann: and the
constant upgrades mean that - even if youve got the right spec one
month -you won;t ahve the next
[6:24] Chris Eggplant: issues
with download rights for both software updates and quicktime
[6:24]
Talula Nikolaidis: firewalls
[6:24] Longside Lane: One barrier
could be that some teachers might find SL trivial and not suitable
for education?
[6:24] Art Fossett: chris, what are those
issues??
[6:24] Chris Eggplant: virtual safety
[6:25]
Chris Eggplant: which one?
[6:25] Art Fossett: with download
rights?
[6:25] lizit Cleanslate: lots of institutions have
probs weith the reg dowl=nloads and perms
[6:25] Art Fossett:
ah, ok
[6:25] Amanita Voom: if students are using machines on
campus they prob have limited rights to upgrade anything
[6:25]
Chris Eggplant: SL regularly has updates - many practitioners etc
don't have admin rights on PCs to download and install updates
etc
[6:25] Tess123 Bailey: I had the same yesterday, tried this
at work and found my graphics card wasn't up to it
[6:26] Art
Fossett: yes, agreed... that is a big issue
[6:26] Gann McGann:
yes - i could only do this at home - my colleague has not been able
to stay connected
[6:26] Talula Nikolaidis: I have to use my
own laptop
[6:26] Tess123 Bailey: yes me too
[6:27] Gann
McGann: snap
[6:27] Gann McGann: i mean ditto
[6:27]
Amanita Voom: I'm OK here at work but a colleague isn't - she has to
use machines in this office to access SL
[6:27] lizit
Cleanslate: I find it bizarre that institutions will fund research in
SL but prevent use as a teaching tool with firewalls and admin
perms
[6:27] Art Fossett: yes, that is odd
[6:28] Talula
Nikolaidis: the communication can get all mixed up....
[6:28]
Geoff Magellan: There are two distinct things, I think. 1) Technical
issues. 2) Pedagogical issues - i.e. how to use it
effectively.
[6:28] Art Fossett: you mean within the
institution... or like this? :-)
[6:28] Tess123 Bailey: I
suppose Computing service departments have other agendas to stick
to
[6:28] Amanita Voom: If this is a barrier, is the solution
an attitudinal change in technical support?
[6:28] Chris
Eggplant: ah depends on the organisation - Essex ACL have totally
sorted this in there new college - access to skype and SL on all
machines - so if they can do it - others can. IT departments need to
move into the real world
[6:28] Tess123 Bailey: yes I
agree
[6:28] Gann McGann: they need to learn what the S in ITS
stands for
[6:29] Tess123 Bailey: although I can't see it
happening for a while in our place
[6:29] Chris Eggplant:
lol
[6:29] Lonac Bade: but what are the bandwidth implications
if everybody is using SL, Skype etc?
[6:29] Gann McGann: me
neither
[6:29] Chris Eggplant: I think this is where pervasive
technology like this can start the learner revolution
[6:29]
Teresa Arliss is Online
[6:29] Art Fossett: would it be fair to
say that the policy issues around SL (firewalls, etc.) are more
easily within our control?
[6:29] lizit Cleanslate: but just
look at the discussion on Web 2.0 technologies annd how many sites
are blockec
[6:29] Chris Eggplant: why would you faff about on
a lousy 2D VLE when you can chat like this!
[6:30] Tess123
Bailey: I think this is great - just very strange
[6:30] Chris
Eggplant: am I going nuts or am I conversing with a white fox
[hic!]
[6:30] Art Fossett: can i try to summarise
briefly?
[6:30] Chris Eggplant: :o)
[6:30] Lonac Bade: it
is very easy to get distracted though - i'm surprised nobody has
flown off yet!
[6:31] Tess123 Bailey: its a pity the only way
to communicate is by text
[6:31] Gann McGann: actually i've
found that concentration is easier in SL than in audio only
meetings
[6:31] Art Fossett: on the technical front we have 2
broad barriers
[6:31] Art Fossett: the technical spec
required
[6:31] Art Fossett: and the technical policies
enforced by some computing services
[6:31] lizit Cleanslate:
voice is coming and is available on the beta grid
[6:31] Talula
Nikolaidis: it's difficult to organise this eh!
[6:31] Art
Fossett: yes
[6:31] Gann McGann: or you can run skype in
parallel
[6:32] Amanita Voom: Audio is meant to be coming to SL
- that might channge the ambience and the tech spec
[6:32]
Tess123 Bailey: oh I see thanks
[6:32] Art Fossett: presumably
audio will push the tech spec even higher
[6:32] Chris
Eggplant: yes u can - on education UK island - we have dedicated and
password protected audio channels that run in sync with chat
etc
[6:32] Longside Lane: What was the second point on your
list, Art?
[6:32] lizit Cleanslate: not necessarily - its using
some form of voip
[6:32] Art Fossett: that technical policies
enforced by some computing services are too strict for SL
[6:33]
Longside Lane: Thanks
[6:33] Art Fossett: what about
pedagogy??
[6:33] Art Fossett: do we know how to use this stuff
yet?
[6:33] Longside Lane: Is it just a gimmick?
[6:33]
Tess123 Bailey: I'm not sure the people that work with staff in
educational development do, ours don't
[6:33] Chris Eggplant:
If I was honest - classes I have been to have not be that good! - It
is coming, but the key I think is blended
[6:33] Tess123
Bailey: (and I'm from that dept too)
[6:33] Lonac Bade: we
hardly know hoe to use PowerPoint - let alone anything like
this!
[6:34] Talula Nikolaidis: It's good for letting students
make their own content and role play
[6:34] Tess123 Bailey: yes
might be a good place for students to share ideas
[6:34] lizit
Cleanslate: are we trying to replicatre rl or do something
different
[6:34] Gann McGann: i've seen interesting creative
writing done in this environment
[6:34] Gann McGann: and there
are simuilations that could be useful
[6:34] Amanita Voom: But
how much are staff really bought into pedagogy elsewhere?
[6:34]
Tess123 Bailey: how much do you think the ability to type fast
hinders or helps?
[6:34] Art Fossett: a l o t . . .
[6:35]
Gann McGann: its an important issue
[6:35] Gann McGann: plus
the way the conversational elements interweave
[6:35] Amanita
Voom: Do they mak a conscious application of pedagogy to T&L
[6:35]
Gann McGann: its difficult for opel to follow
[6:35] lizit
Cleanslate: just don't correct typing erroes
[6:35] Gann
McGann: particularly ESL students
[6:35] Tess123 Bailey:
ESL?
[6:35] lizit Cleanslate: but there are ESL classes in
SL
[6:35] Gann McGann: english second language
[6:35] Art
Fossett: yes... we have a virtual chairing system in the virtual
congress centre
[6:35] Tess123 Bailey: ah sorry yes
[6:35]
Art Fossett: to try and avoid all this cross-talking
[6:35]
Chris Eggplant: SL is great for ESL as there is the international
element - British Council are doing loads around this in SL
[6:36]
Art Fossett: but it's not qwuite ready for prime time yet
[6:36]
Gann McGann: we use a strict run taking system when we use regular
chat
[6:36] Art Fossett: you are welcome to try it afterwards
though
[6:36] Gann McGann: it slows it down but it gives
sveryobe a chance
[6:36] lizit Cleanslate: we're all on a
learning curve and unsure what to do
[6:36] Longside Lane:
would the raised hand work with a grou pof this size?
[6:37]
Art Fossett: so another issue is that communication rules need to be
relearned? conventions or whatever
[6:37] Gann McGann: yes -
but before that they need to be discovered
[6:37] Longside
Lane: it must be important to set down communication rules in
advance
[6:37] Art Fossett: agreed
[6:37] Amanita Voom:
are you just applying RL rules to a new environment?
[6:37]
Chris Eggplant: yes Lonside - shud be 2nd item after introduction
'meeting protocol'
[6:38] Art Fossett: yup, that's a good
idea
[6:38] Longside Lane: maybe people who use chat more than
i do would be ok
[6:38] Tess123 Bailey: I suppose the more
practice the better you get (obviously)
[6:38] Sedoy Lednev:
can I join the group?
[6:38] Gann McGann: but pedagogically you
need to take into account the slowest typist and let them have equal
partiicpation
[6:39] Art Fossett: sedoy, yes
[6:39]
Tess123 Bailey: I agree
[6:39] Gann McGann: otherwise youre
inadevrtently censoring them
[6:39] Talula Nikolaidis: maybe it
would be good to work in really small groupds and then report
back?
[6:39] Art Fossett: the virtual chairing system would
help with that i think
[6:39] Chris Eggplant: that sounds like
good teaching to me - equally applies to RL classroom!
[6:39]
Art Fossett: :-)
[6:39] Teresa Arliss is Offline
[6:39]
lizit Cleanslate: I think some people have found there is more
equality in SL in contribution
[6:39] Talula Nikolaidis: 2 or 3
would be good?
[6:39] Gann McGann: yes - a lot of these issues
are no different from RL
[6:40] Gann McGann: they're just
foregoruded becuase its new
[6:40] lizit Cleanslate: quieter
people can find it easier to participate
[6:40] Talula
Nikolaidis: We'ld need to all go away somewhere
[6:40] lizit
Cleanslate: the ones who don't get to speak in rl groups
[6:40]
Art Fossett: NOTE: we have about 5 minutes left
[6:40] Longside
Lane: we seem to be assuming that SL is mainly used for chat - I
guess there are many more uses
[6:40] lizit Cleanslate: small
groups can use IM
[6:40] Talula Nikolaidis: true
[6:40]
lizit Cleanslate: role play
[6:40] lizit Cleanslate:
exploration
[6:40] Talula Nikolaidis: could work well
[6:41]
lizit Cleanslate: team building
[6:41] Art Fossett: what about
shared building?
[6:41] Longside Lane: what is shared
building?
[6:41] Talula Nikolaidis: I think they do that in
teen SL
[6:41] Gann McGann: it can be used for selfstudy too -
interact with learning objects
[6:41] Art Fossett:
collaborating on art work, set design, ...
[6:41] Longside
Lane: ah, thanks
[6:41] Lonac Bade: but what advantages does in
SL provide in relation to each of the activities mentioned?
[6:41]
Art Fossett: does that make sense?
[6:41] Talula Nikolaidis:
Be Einstein for the day
[6:41] Art Fossett: e=mc2
[6:41]
Longside Lane: that makes sense, thanks
[6:42] Amanita Voom:
try things out that you can't in RL
[6:42] Talula Nikolaidis:
right!
[6:42] Gann McGann: role play is more effective becuiase
RL is less pervavise
[6:42] lizit Cleanslate: virtual
fieldtrips
[6:42] Gann McGann: i'm not a white wolf in real
life
[6:42] Longside Lane: yes, simulation would be a big plus
of SL
[6:42] Gann McGann: and i dont smoke
[6:42] Art
Fossett: is the naming issue a barrier??
[6:42] Gann McGann:
naing?
[6:42] Art Fossett: avatar naming I mean
[6:42]
Longside Lane: I think the naming issue is an issue
[6:42] Art
Fossett: that fact that we are not using our real names
[6:42]
lizit Cleanslate: in what way?
[6:43] Longside Lane: the naming
and constumes can detract from what is going on
[6:43] lizit
Cleanslate: I find the anonymity of SL liberating
[6:43]
Amanita Voom: I think it probably helps especially with some of the
earlier comments about keeping RL out
[6:43] Grey Wildcat: i
think it's a reall issue - no one has put their rl identity in their
profile - me included
[6:43] Geoff Magellan: Though a teacher
working with students in an SL class would, presumably, need to know
their real names.
[6:43] lizit Cleanslate: very few people have
anything in their profiles in this group
[6:43] Gann McGann:
only because i didn;t know to - i have no problem anyone knowing who
i really am
[6:44] Gann McGann: although i know some people
do
[6:44] Amanita Voom: Is the issue that you have nop idea
whether to believe someone or not?
[6:44] Tess123 Bailey: I
wasn't sure what people did in SL and how much they say who they are
in RL
[6:44] Gann McGann: and some peope have an issue with not
knowing who people really are
[6:44] Talula Nikolaidis: depends
what youre using it for
[6:44] Gann McGann: i mean "really"
are
[6:44] Talula Nikolaidis: if you know what I mean
[6:44]
Art Fossett: what about even very mundane things like knowing who is
in your class or not??
[6:44] Gann McGann: and it depends on
the person - and so it becomes a pedagogical issue
[6:45] Lonac
Bade: anonymity could be helpful for novice learners who don't want
to reveal their lack of understanding in RL
[6:45] Grey
Wildcat: it's related to simulation isse and appropriate use of
sl
[6:45] Longside Lane: it is very hard to follow this
discussion? or is it me?
[6:45] Gann McGann: mixing
immersionists and disclosurists ina aclass could be a problem
[6:45]
Tess123 Bailey: its the first time I've had a meeting with a white
wolf
[6:45] Talula Nikolaidis: Can you use chat to tell people
who you are?
[6:45] lizit Cleanslate: You can set up groups and
get people to join thme
[6:45] Talula Nikolaidis: yes
[6:45]
Grey Wildcat: don't mind the white wolf but have yet to see the
educational advantage in this meeting
[6:45] Art Fossett:
lizit, i just IM'd you
[6:45] Chris Eggplant: let's not forget
that you can 'edit' your 'preferences' quite easily to remove names
and that could be a decision made with the learner group
[6:46]
Longside Lane: do we have alist of 10 obstacles?
[6:46] Art
Fossett: i'm not sure
[6:46] Art Fossett: i would get hung up
on the 10
[6:46] Grey Wildcat: why are we looking for obstacles
and not advantages or is that task 2?
[6:46] Longside Lane:
good point
[6:46] Talula Nikolaidis: both are important
[6:46]
Gann McGann: the educatgional advantage is that it wouldn't have
happned otherwise
[6:46] Art Fossett: how about we talk about
opportunities in plenary??
[6:47] lizit Cleanslate: I've got 3
headings - technical, pedagociacl and the medium and about 4 points
under each
[6:47] Gann McGann: i think i've learnt somewthing -
but i couldn't have attneded a face-toface meeting
[6:47] Grey
Wildcat: only because of the limitations of the jisc online
conference software
[6:47] Longside Lane: I have learnt a lot
from this experience, too
[6:47] Tess123 Bailey: it woudl be
nice to be able to remember who you all are after this
[6:47]
Grey Wildcat: haha
[6:47] Art Fossett: OK, guys... i'm going to
draw things to a close here... just stay where you are a
minute
[6:47] Csteph Submariner is Online
[6:48] Talula
Nikolaidis: are we doing a group photo?
[6:48] Art Fossett: we
are going to go into the virtual congress centre for the final
bit
[6:48] Art Fossett: we can do a photo in there or
afterwards
[6:48] Talula Nikolaidis: good
[6:48] lizit
Cleanslate: If you'd like a copy of the notecard, invite me to be a
friend and I'll put it in your inventory
[6:48] Art Fossett:
choose an audience seat one you are in there
[6:49] Art
Fossett: i'll post the notecards to the conference systme
afterwards
[6:49] lizit Cleanslate: I'll do it after the
sesseion
[6:49] Art Fossett: ok, please make your way into the
virtual congress centre
The meeting then reconviened in
the Virtual Congress Centre for clsoing
discussion. Note that
this part of the meeting was automatically 'chaired' by
a
scripted object acting as a virtual chair.
[6:51] Chris
Eggplant: interesting that in SL we behave just like RL when it comes
to seating - se do like a gap between oursleves lol
[6:51] Art
Fossett: just wait a second until everyone is sat down
[6:51]
Art Fossett: i think that is everyone
[6:51] PanelPod Virtual
Chair: Art Fossett: you may now start speaking.
[6:51] Art
Fossett: note that your seats are red... that means DO NOT
SPEAK
[6:51] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Audience member Grey
Wildcat wants to speak.
[6:52] Art Fossett: you can only speak
when your own chair is green
[6:52] Grey Wildcat: no red seats
left
[6:52] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Audience member Grey
Wildcat has finished speaking.
[6:52] PanelPod Virtual Chair:
Art Fossett: you may now start speaking.
[6:52] Art Fossett: to
make your seat go green, put up your hand using page up
[6:52]
Norma Demina: hi lonac
[6:52] Art Fossett: but do not speak
until it is your turn
[6:52] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Panelist
Art Fossett has finished speaking.
[6:52] PanelPod Virtual
Chair: Art Fossett: you may now start speaking.
[6:52] Art
Fossett: OK, lizit and hilary, do you want to join us at the
front?
[6:52] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Panelist Art Fossett has
finished speaking.
[6:53] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Art Fossett:
you may now start speaking.
[6:53] Art Fossett: cool
[6:53]
Art Fossett: lizit, do you want to do your feedback?
[6:53]
PanelPod Virtual Chair: Panelist Art Fossett has finished
speaking.
[6:54] PanelPod Virtual Chair: lizit Cleanslate: you
may now start speaking.
[6:54] lizit Cleanslate: OK We had an
interesting and wide ranging discussion. We have divided our points
into 3 areas - Technical, Pedagogical and the SL medium itself
[6:54]
lizit Cleanslate: Technical Tech specs for kit - graphics and
machine spec broadband essential firewalls download and installation
permissions technical policies enforced by some computing services
are too strict for SL
[6:54] lizit Cleanslate: I'll stik the :
in later
[6:55] lizit Cleanslate: Pedagogical Communications
rules/conventions relearned - different from rl; raised hand systems;
meeting protocols not just communication medium - shared activities,
eg building, art work, real identity or SL identity - are av names
and appearances a problem - anonymity strength or weakness
[6:55]
lizit Cleanslate: The medium Learning curve; Finding information;
Geography - finding your way around
[6:55] lizit Cleanslate: We
could have used more time...
[6:55] PanelPod Virtual Chair:
Panelist lizit Cleanslate has finished speaking.
[6:55] Art
Fossett: ok, thanks
[6:56] Art Fossett: hilary?
[6:56]
Hilary Graves: we started out with the basics
[6:56] Hilary
Graves: moving around, finding your way round and the inworld
search
[6:57] Hilary Graves: the there's the tech stuff already
mentioned - graphics cards, firewall - one of us had to leave and
reenter becuase of a afirewall issue
[6:57] Hilary Graves:
eeling uncomfortable in the environment. Perceptions of seediness and
the range in in world activities
[6:57] PanelPod Virtual Chair:
Gann McGann: you may now start speaking.
[6:57] Gann McGann:
seediness??
[6:57] Hilary Graves: sorry lost the start of that
- this was around feeling comfortable in the world
[6:58]
Hilary Graves: finally time zones and meeting up, the need to be
always online, the time needed to research good sites and thinking
out of the box and not just replicating real life.
[6:58]
PanelPod Virtual Chair: Panelist Art Fossett wants to speak.
[6:58]
Hilary Graves: But Im sure my group can express it more fully
:-)
[6:58] Art Fossett: gann, you need to put your hand
down
[6:58] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Audience member Gann McGann
has finished speaking.
[6:58] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Art
Fossett: you may now start speaking.
[6:58] Art Fossett:
thanks
[6:58] Art Fossett: thanks hilary...
[6:58] Art
Fossett: any comments from the floor?
[6:58] PanelPod Virtual
Chair: Panelist Art Fossett has finished speaking.
[6:59]
PanelPod Virtual Chair: Gann McGann: you may now start
speaking.
[6:59] Gann McGann: i'm curous about the discomfort -
i've never felt that - wjat's the source of it?
[6:59] PanelPod
Virtual Chair: Audience member Gann McGann has finished
speaking.
[6:59] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Norma Demina: you may
now start speaking.
[6:59] Norma Demina: something strange
happened during our discussion
[6:59] Norma Demina: this
illustrated it for me
[7:00] Norma Demina: some stranger turned
up and sat down
[7:00] Norma Demina: he didn't introduce
himself and none of us spoke to him
[7:00] Norma Demina: i felt
uncompfotable but we all just carried one
[7:00] Norma Demina:
did anyone else in the goup find this odd?
[7:00] PanelPod
Virtual Chair: Audience member Norma Demina has finished
speaking.
[7:00] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Art Fossett: you may
now start speaking.
[7:01] Art Fossett: note that you can put
your hand up while someone else is speaking to get added to the
queue
[7:01] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Panelist Art Fossett has
finished speaking.
[7:01] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Hilary
Graves: you may now start speaking.
[7:01] PanelPod Virtual
Chair: Audience member Lulu Minnelli wants to speak.
[7:01]
PanelPod Virtual Chair: Audience member Lonac Bade wants to
speak.
[7:01] Hilary Graves: i still feel uncomfortable moving
round and bumping in to people:-)
[7:01] PanelPod Virtual
Chair: Panelist Hilary Graves has finished speaking.
[7:01]
PanelPod Virtual Chair: Lulu Minnelli: you may now start
speaking.
[7:02] Lulu Minnelli: i didn t realise he wasnt
supposed to be there but if it happened in real life people woudl
probably also not be too sure at least in teh UK we are all so
polite
[7:02] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Audience member Lulu
Minnelli has finished speaking.
[7:02] PanelPod Virtual Chair:
Lonac Bade: you may now start speaking.
[7:03] PanelPod Virtual
Chair: Panelist lizit Cleanslate wants to speak.
[7:03] Talula
Nikolaidis: ahhhhhhh
[7:03] Talula Nikolaidis: there's a
stranger next to me!
[7:04] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Panelist
Art Fossett wants to speak.
[7:04] Lonac Bade: the stranger (i
think it was the same one!) visited our group - i assumed they were
from the other group and didn't think anything of it, but it was
initilly slightly uncomfortable initially - like SL more
generally!
[7:04] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Audience member Lonac
Bade has finished speaking.
[7:04] PanelPod Virtual Chair:
lizit Cleanslate: you may now start speaking.
[7:05] lizit
Cleanslate: It's almost a feature of what happens in SL and I admit I
hardly noticed
[7:05] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Panelist lizit
Cleanslate has finished speaking.
[7:05] PanelPod Virtual
Chair: Art Fossett: you may now start speaking.
[7:05] Art
Fossett: NOTE: we need to wrap up soon
[7:05] PanelPod Virtual
Chair: Audience member Graham Mills wants to speak.
[7:05] Art
Fossett: i'm going to ask you all to ignore the virtual chairing
thing now... what is your favorite think about SL... what do you
think the big advantages are?
[7:05] Art Fossett: just shout
out...
[7:05] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Panelist Art Fossett has
finished speaking.
[7:05] PanelPod Virtual Chair: Graham Mills:
you may now start speaking.
[7:05] Peregrine Juneau: (Lizit:
Yes, I agree. I hardly noticed either!)
[7:06] Bunyip Barbosa:
Fun
[7:06] Graham Mills: Genome Island was cool
[7:06]
lizit Cleanslate: breaking the barriers
[7:06] Lonac Bade
shouts: fun
[7:06] Talula Nikolaidis: It's really funny!
[7:06]
PanelPod Virtual Chair: Audience member Graham Mills has finished
speaking.
[7:06] Bunyip Barbosa: Imaginative
[7:06]
Talula Nikolaidis: Lots of potential
[7:06] Lulu Minnelli:
meeting people and creating things that would be impossible in real
life - i love my pet dragon
[7:06] Sumdy Bonne: being bale to
wear leopard skin trousers
[7:06] Bunyip Barbosa: £D web
at last
[7:06] Bunyip Barbosa: 3
[7:06] Talula
Nikolaidis: can't wait to use it for more conferences
[7:06]
Lulu Minnelli: yeah no liposuction needed here
[7:06] Chris
Eggplant: different opportunity to experience a different visual
environmnet
[7:06] Lulu Minnelli: the unexpected
[7:06]
Talula Nikolaidis: I can fly and transport
[7:06] Hilary
Graves: the sense of the unknown:-)
[7:07] Zenita Zadeh: the
visualness of it all... what people have created and chatting to
people who have a visual presence
[7:07] Lulu Minnelli: its
always sunny
[7:07] Norma Demina: yes experimentation
[7:07]
Art Fossett: what about froma specifically learning point of
view?
[7:07] Tess123 Bailey: something very new (to me) but
fun
[7:07] Talula Nikolaidis: feeling a sense of space
[7:07]
Sumdy Bonne: lying on the beach
[7:07] Longside Lane: The
potential to simulate tasks impossible in RL
[7:07] Talula
Nikolaidis: The potential for role play
[7:07] Hilary Graves:
I'd like to open it up to students and ask them how they'd use
it
[7:07] Chris Eggplant: opportunity for quiet learners to
experiment and take on different personas - pershaps engage in ways
RL doesnt affrod them
[7:08] Lulu Minnelli: i think i need more
time in here with students but initally i think it a dds a deeper
layer of communication than just chat
[7:08] Graham Mills:
Learning-wise, seeing things in a different way, someone else's
vision
[7:08] Talula Nikolaidis: yes...totally TESEP
[7:08]
Art Fossett: OK... I'm going to draw the meeting to a close
[7:08]
Bunyip Barbosa: Model information in 3 D -huge potential e.g.
chemical molecules etc.
[7:08] Chris Eggplant: good for
CPD
[7:08] Talula Nikolaidis: Can we capture all this
text
[7:08] Art Fossett: I wanted to say thank you for
coming
[7:08] Graham Mills: Students should design and
build
[7:08] Chris Eggplant: part of blened learning
[7:08]
Lulu Minnelli: you can do things that would be too expensice in
rl
[7:08] Art Fossett: yes, everything is being captured
[7:08]
Norma Demina: I agree Talula - totally TESEP
[7:08] Longside
Lane: Thank you, Art
[7:08] lizit Cleanslate: brill
[7:08]
Bunyip Barbosa: Thanks you for organising it!
[7:08] Graham
Mills: Thanks, good fun
[7:08] Tess123 Bailey: Thank
you!
[7:08] Art Fossett: i hope you found it useful
[7:08]
Chris Eggplant: ta
[7:08] Lulu Minnelli: great stuff
[7:08]
Longside Lane: Very useful
[7:08] Norma Demina: great
experience for sure - thanks
[7:09] Geoff Magellan: Manyt
thanks Art for organising all this! Excellent experience.
[7:09]
Art Fossett: thanks particularly to hilary and lizit for reporting
back
[7:09] Hilary Graves: thanks to everyone - this has been
fun
[7:09] Amanita Voom: Thanks
[7:09] Talula Nikolaidis:
yes learned loads
[7:09] Bunyip Barbosa: Is there a cafe on
this island?!
[7:09] Norma Demina: or a bar?
[7:09] T
Tags: fossett is, art fossett, fossett, online, [606], [605]